tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3948298098114337495.comments2015-10-15T12:34:10.957-05:00Renascentes MusaeUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger259125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3948298098114337495.post-25175730915896761842015-10-15T12:34:10.957-05:002015-10-15T12:34:10.957-05:00Here at classical education programs/degrees. I do...Here at classical education programs/degrees. I don't want any of your attention to be drawn away from the spectacular array of books and materials. Therefore, there will be no internet advertising. Enjoy the clean space!.<a href="http://www.cui.edu/" rel="nofollow">classical education programs/degrees</a>.Houstondivohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08448772026408116619noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3948298098114337495.post-51970686560384506252013-04-15T23:37:23.820-05:002013-04-15T23:37:23.820-05:00Ran across the excerpt below in the New York TImes...Ran across the excerpt below in the New York TImes from 4/12/13. It prompted me to re-read this RenMus post: <br /><br />By Jeffrey Selingo,<br /><br />"The collapse of higher education’s business model has been predicted many times before. Yet more colleges have opened their doors than closed them in the past 50 years. Perhaps the continued financial struggles indicate that there are just too many colleges for the marketplace — or at least too many that, with their climbing walls, lazy rivers and five-star dormitories, look too much alike in the battle for prestige, and have lost sense of their mission. A thinning of the ranks might be long overdue."<br /><br />http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/14/education/edlife/many-colleges-and-universities-face-financial-problems.html?pagewanted=1&_r=0Steve Gehrkenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3948298098114337495.post-88643405606895447272012-12-13T15:49:23.847-06:002012-12-13T15:49:23.847-06:00Paul McCain in the comments for Noland's post ...Paul McCain in the comments for Noland's post said that the Concordias had been established by the LCMS as 2 year schools, upgraded by fiat to 4 year schools by JAO Preus. <br /><br />His defense of the CU's mediocre rankings by USNWR is that they were not founded with the intent to be 'great universities" and with little direct support from the LCMS shouldn't be criticized for not being such, or for pursuing non-Lutheran students. <br /><br />It caught my eye that Noland's piece states that the CU's are lower rated than almost all ELCA, WELS and ELS colleges. What was different in the histories of those colleges that led (at least some) of them to become something more than "A+ Schools for B students" - the tagline given by USNWR to the the highest rated CU's (Mequon and Seward)? I've heard from different sources that Valpo had been the unofficial LCMS university alternative to the historical role of CU teacher colleges. Was that intentional, or by default? Obviously I don't know much about the history of Lutheran higher education in the US. I'm aware of the broad secularizing trends of higher ed for all historically church-supported schools, but how is it that the LCMS wound up with none highly rated? I'm sure that's a book length answer, so I pose these questions mostly as observations, not expecting a blog-post answer.<br /><br />St. Olaf is the only Lutheran school on my son's radar screen as it is the only one academically strong in his potential majors (considering a double major in math or physics and music), that we're aware of anyway. How did it wind up so much better by academics and reputation than any CU? We went there for a recruiting day last summer and while they did take us through the chapel as part of the standard campus tour which was nice, they also emphasized that they didn't expect students to be Lutheran. So we aren't expecting anything distinctively Lutheran about the education at St. Olaf. Of course the biggest drawback about considering St. Olaf is the fact that it has among the highest tuition rates in the US!Steve Gehrkenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3948298098114337495.post-63982844870223953112012-08-09T06:36:53.083-05:002012-08-09T06:36:53.083-05:00Then there's this item in the Commentary secti...Then there's this item in the Commentary section of The Chronicle of Higher Education by Robert E. Martin. Direct quotation from article followed by URL:<br /><br />"On the administrative side, the ratios of executives to student and professional staff to student increased—the latter by 50 percent. In 1987, except at private research universities, where administrators outnumbered tenure-track faculty, colleges had approximately as many tenure-track faculty as full-time administrators. By 2008 there were more than twice as many administrators as tenure-track faculty at all types of institutions."<br /><br />http://chronicle.com/article/College-Costs-Too-Much-Because/133357/?cid=at&utm_source=at&utm_medium=enJon Brusshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08662799113737328806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3948298098114337495.post-48737911512308463612012-08-08T22:26:30.870-05:002012-08-08T22:26:30.870-05:00Several interesting items to respond to here. Firs...Several interesting items to respond to here. First, I don't mean to imply that all administration is bad or unnecessary. There needs to be some. The difficulty arises when administration takes on a life of its own. The article Steve's last response points to demonstrates that. <br />But administration's growth is also linked to the higher ed arms race--the college or university that's the first to get to the 100' indoor climbing wall wins, but then everyone follows. The college that has the most beefed-up student support center wins, but then everyone else follows. The first liberal arts college to establish the R-1 publication record for tenure wins, but then everyone else follows. Costs are shifted: the 100' wall needs to be staffed, students need to be supported, and faculty administrative work needs to be done. What were perks now become needs. Costs rise even as the center-point of college attendance, learning from experts in the classroom, shoulder-to-shoulder, in office hours, and at the campus coffee shop, gets shifted to the outside of the circle. Students, then, pay more for less, while believing they're paying [justifiably] more for more. Meanwhile less becomes even lesser. FTE remains the same or increases even as full-time tenure-line positions are replaced with a patchwork of part-time adjuncts. Often blamed on the overhead costs of full-time faculty ("it's not just salary we're paying, but ever-increasing medical insurance costs," so goes the line), it's really a matter of where the resources are going. Resources driven into 100' climbing walls and the buildings that house them are resources that can't be used to be teaching salaries. Resources spent to pay teachers more to research more and teach less are resources that can't be used to support the FTE requirements of the college. Resources spent on administrative salaries and benefits do the same. <br />I just had an interesting conversation with my friend Erik Ankerberg, who, too, has come to the same conclusion: the present curriculum-staffing-funding-financing-physical-plant-administrative-overhead model is, to use a fashionable term, unsustainable. I think this is true on both a macro level (for the entire higher-ed "industry") as well as, and perhaps more pointedly, on the micro level that Ren. Mus. is concerned with: Lutheran higher education.<br />This is why the only sensible thing is a fundamental re-thinking of Lutheran higher education that is a reprise of what's central to the life of the Lutheran mind (see earlier posts, perhaps the first few of this blog). Pare down the curriculum (well over 70% actually distracts from learning to think like a Lutheran), beef up commitment of resources to that curriculum, focus on essentials, not extras. Deliver what you promise (an education, not a job). But do it all at a price that's affordable, more on which at a later date. But if one starts to do a little math with generous student-faculty ratios (like 15:1 or even 10:1) and reductions of overhead costs in the areas of administration and non-teaching positions, the numbers start to look pretty good for students, the prospects start to look really good for the life of the Lutheran mind, and an avenue opens up not only for the survival, but for a renewed vitality, of Lutheran higher education in North America.Jon Brusshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08662799113737328806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3948298098114337495.post-42466082294662204662012-08-08T12:19:57.444-05:002012-08-08T12:19:57.444-05:00Just ran across this which has some specifics supp...Just ran across this which has some specifics supporting your general view above:<br /><br />"A second item from right around that same time period is an old article from the Chronicle of Higher Education that focused on KU.<br /><br />The Chronicle centered on how KU had changed from 1988 to 2008, when operating expenses more than tripled, but its enrollment of 26,000 students stayed almost exactly the same.<br /><br />It was an interesting study.<br /><br />“Throughout academe, college leaders often explain the rising cost of a college education as the inevitable result of an expanded menu of services that students and their parents expect, the higher costs of conducting and monitoring research, and the plusher academic and social amenities that professors and students now consider standard fare,” the article read.<br /><br />In that time, KU added hundreds of counselors, student-affairs officers, “scores” of statisticians and technicians to run sophisticated laboratory equipment for research and renovated tons of residence halls and academic spaces.<br /><br />Tuition during that time, by the way, increased five times over.<br /><br />The article points out that while state appropriations to the campus nearly doubled during that time, the percentage of operating expenses covered by the state went down from more than 40 percent in 1988 to 22 percent in 2008. Interesting stuff, all of that."<br />http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2012/aug/08/heard-hill-cleaning-out-my-desk-yields-amusing-tea/Steve Gehrkenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3948298098114337495.post-1203256978388723622012-07-27T21:42:29.172-05:002012-07-27T21:42:29.172-05:00Prof. Springer-
I agree with your general observat...Prof. Springer-<br />I agree with your general observations. However, there aren't many faculty (and no rational ones) who would take a pay cut in order to move into an administrative position. From both personal observations and personal experience, there are few people happier than a department chair in his or her last month in that role before returning to the faculty as a regular professor! <br />SteveSteve Gehrkenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3948298098114337495.post-41274291787359362082012-07-27T19:38:58.831-05:002012-07-27T19:38:58.831-05:00BTW, I do agree strongly that the current model of...BTW, I do agree strongly that the current model of higher education is on an unsustainable trajectory in terms of cost, and that it ought to be possible to offer a high quality education along the lines you suggest for a much lower cost than is currently available-speaking as a father of high school age children, though not as a professor in the process of moving my labs into a brand new $25 M research building while writing here as a break from writing an NSF proposal to pay for that research and generate the 49% overhead needed to help pay for that building!<br /> ;-)Steve Gehrkenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3948298098114337495.post-67224569476540827362012-07-27T19:30:47.960-05:002012-07-27T19:30:47.960-05:00Hi Jon,
I just happened to check on RenMus today a...Hi Jon,<br />I just happened to check on RenMus today and was happy to see your continued interest in this subject and happy to have my thinking about higher education provoked by your ideas once again.<br /><br />However, I'm not clear about whether you are providing commentary on US higher education in general, or Lutheran colleges specifically. I think that the graduate programs of research universities are important components of the American higher education system. However I agree that in such universities it is difficult to maintain an appropriate balance between undergraduate teaching and research, and to control the growth of the administration needed to support faculty and students in these pursuits.<br /><br />However, apart from seminaries, what are the examples of Lutheran research universities? We visited St. Olaf this summer as a possible college for my son. They emphasized that because they did not offer graduate degrees, they were able to maintain their focus on undergraduate education and that was one reason they believed they offered a superior education to that offered by research-intensive universities. While we did have a very positive visit (except for considering the cost of that education!) I was not convinced by the argument that absence of a graduate program (read: emphasis on research) necessarily meant a superior undergraduate education. <br /><br />I know that your emphasis is on undergraduate education, but I wondered what role you saw for graduate education in a Lutheran university - if any? <br /><br />I trust all is well with you and your family.<br />SteveSteve Gehrkenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3948298098114337495.post-51441142932090135422012-06-16T05:46:39.192-05:002012-06-16T05:46:39.192-05:00Good post and Smart Blog
Thanks for your good inf...Good post and Smart Blog <br />Thanks for your good information and i hope to subscribe and visit my blog <a href="http://www.ancientgreece.me/" rel="nofollow"> Ancient Greece Art </a> and more <a href="http://www.ancientgreece.me/2012/06/sanctuaries-early-iron-age-in-ancient.html" rel="nofollow"> Subsistence in The Early Iron Age in Ancient Greece </a> thanks again adminAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3948298098114337495.post-89800330051908337782012-06-09T13:37:14.544-05:002012-06-09T13:37:14.544-05:00Thanks, Jon, for a carefully thought out critique....Thanks, Jon, for a carefully thought out critique. A seasoned university administrator once observed in my presence, without elaboration, that academic administration tends to expand like latticework. I’ve been thinking about that analogy ever since. Both are easily (and infinitely) capable of multiplication and division. It seems, on the one hand, that there are always more areas that need to be supervised, made more efficient and accountable, and the more administrators there are, the more such areas are discovered. It expands geometrically. (This is more often, from my experience, the result of the best of intentions, not conscious efforts to try to get away with something.) Administrators breed more administrators in another way, too, often hiring them to do part of their own job because it has turned out to be so complex or time-consuming. The job is divided and subdivided. <br /><br />The problem with such expansive and intensive growth of administration, as you observe, is that the essential work of the university, teaching and research, needs to be done, not just assessed or facilitated or organized or supervised. Administration isn’t only expansive; it’s expensive. Administrators make more than most faculty, and often it is the most productive and effective faculty who are recruited into administrative roles thus reducing their time in the classroom, library, and laboratory. One solution to reversing this trend (if we were serious about doing it) is simple, but one which I have never personally seen included in any university’s strategic plan: pay faculty more than administrators! Another, practically heretical notion: pay more attention to performing fundamental academic activities than to assessing them. Speaking of assessment: there’s a story going around about a veteran farmer who once observed to someone who suggested that he weigh the pigs he was raising for market more often to keep track of their growth: “No pig ever got bigger by weighing it.” Maybe we in academe should get a tee-shirt that says: “Feed the pig; don’t weigh it.”Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3948298098114337495.post-16663127847271750622012-06-09T09:50:09.674-05:002012-06-09T09:50:09.674-05:00Nice to see you writing again, Jon.Nice to see you writing again, Jon.Rev. Dr. Benjamin T. G. Mayeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05883905782147579188noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3948298098114337495.post-86228394175737718532010-12-12T20:23:40.251-06:002010-12-12T20:23:40.251-06:00Your puns are priceless...Your puns are priceless...Amberghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07650884515357940495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3948298098114337495.post-48077720856200771652010-11-14T19:58:42.991-06:002010-11-14T19:58:42.991-06:00Jon, this is a thoughtful reflection on Lutheranis...Jon, this is a thoughtful reflection on Lutheranism and liberal arts, and certainly underscores your point that the exclusivity of teaching the liberal arts is every bit as important as the fact they get taught at all. I think, however, you may have misunderstood my comments and questions. You re-frame my take as: “Why not accept the status quo in contemporary confessional Lutheran higher education and, by implication, work with and within it?” This both begs the question, in the classical sense, and recasts my question as the conclusion.<br /><br />I think more accurately, my question is: how do you most effectively transcend the status quo? How—not what. That, of course, leads to the question, what is the goal? Is it Lutheran liberal arts in any way it can be achieved or is it Lutheran liberal arts, in an institution devoted solely to that pursuit and in the absence of any interference from professional programs and other tangents? If the latter, as you propose, what examples can we look at to determine how we get there?<br /><br />You say: “[G]iven the reality on the street, even approaching an institution that presently exists in order to create something like a Wittenberg curriculum would require showing up money in hand. In other words, it is not the case that present institutions will simply divert funds from what they are already doing to develop a Wittenberg curriculum.” I should think so, as long as everything they are told that they and their students are unworthy of any participation in your project. On the other hand, the reality on the street that I see is a higher education system in our country that hasn’t yet found room for an institution truly and purely dedicated to a confessional Lutheran liberal arts program.<br />Again, my question is not whether, but how. So, how does it get done if not standing on the foundation (however shaky) of already existing institutions? And how do you persuade others to support an all-or-nothing, black-and-white, no-middle-ground project? <br />I yield back the remainder of my time to let the pros talk.<br /><br />RayUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02675823016762234441noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3948298098114337495.post-22644559205554006302010-11-13T19:47:48.869-06:002010-11-13T19:47:48.869-06:00Amberg - I'm unclear as to what the resistance...Amberg - I'm unclear as to what the resistance you refer to is, or in what sense professional students are marginalized relative to classical students. As a result I can offer no response to your question. Can you explain?Steve Gehrkenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3948298098114337495.post-44844661675026031142010-11-13T19:19:00.942-06:002010-11-13T19:19:00.942-06:00"My greatest admiration is reserved for profe..."My greatest admiration is reserved for professors who can motivate students to work hard to learn a subject they didn't initially think they were interested in. "<br /><br />And how can we have such teachers unless they have the conviction that what they are teaching is more important than what everybody else is teaching? But an orthodox Lutheran classics or theology teacher who goes to a public University or a Concordia with this frame of mind will meet with more resistance than we would like to admit.<br /><br />In fact it is this resistance which has marginalized the professional students from the classical students.<br /><br />How do we over come the resistance?Amberghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07650884515357940495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3948298098114337495.post-34609212999538790002010-11-13T14:24:46.421-06:002010-11-13T14:24:46.421-06:00A short comment from someone who teaches in profes...A short comment from someone who teaches in professional programs: Wouldn't/couldn't/shouldn't an educational institution open the eyes of the 'hoop jumpers' to the more fundamental questions raised here? Couldn't a Wittenberg education lay the foundation for a high quality professional education?<br /><br />I understand that students who don't want to learn can't be taught. But inspiring students to want to learn is part of a teacher's job. It's also the hardest thing to do, much harder than figuring out to convey the course material effectively. My greatest admiration is reserved for professors who can motivate students to work hard to learn a subject they didn't initially think they were interested in. <br /><br />I do find it necessary to have some outstanding, highly motivated students in a program to bring up the overall quality of the education. Students do tend to work to peer level and need some role models among their peers of what is possible to achieve and the effort required to reach it.Steve Gehrkenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3948298098114337495.post-84295114870100729482010-11-13T11:07:20.831-06:002010-11-13T11:07:20.831-06:00Speaking as someone from a supposedly liberal arts...Speaking as someone from a supposedly liberal arts Catholic college that is currently drowning in pre-professional programs: Amen!<br />"Not only that, but as mentioned above, this places serious students of, say, theology or history or chemistry in a class with students who regard all of those courses as hoops to jump through (Desperate Housewives fans in a conversation with Trekkies about Star Trek). Again, the impact is corrosive on the student body": Double Amen!<br /><br />Bethany KilcreaseAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3948298098114337495.post-8702269143127673862010-11-13T10:11:27.845-06:002010-11-13T10:11:27.845-06:00I think Ray's point is that there's a big ...I think Ray's point is that there's a big difference between public and private institutions and their respective purposes. I think. And further that the virtuous mooch of Fish's article is something you might countenance in public education, but not in a Lutheran or private college (?). <br /><br />But your far more important point is that there MUST be something different about Lutheran colleges, otherwise they simply should not exist (this purely on good stewardship grounds, right?). Further, that if there is no difference between a Lutheran college and a secular/public college, Lutherans ought to be in the business of divesting their higher-ed holdings and using the profits from the sale thereof to put top-notch Lutheran chapels staffed by top-notch theologians/pastors on or around campuses where there are Lutheran students. <br /><br />Agreed 100%!Jon Brusshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08662799113737328806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3948298098114337495.post-42474697871597075252010-11-12T23:22:36.259-06:002010-11-12T23:22:36.259-06:00"There is a big difference between public and..."There is a big difference between public and Lutheran institutions."<br /><br />I'm wondering what is this difference? I have an appointment in a school of pharmacy at a public university, but what would be different if this appointment was in a Lutheran school, either for me as a faculty member or for a student? Jon has described some ways in which it could/should be. Whether starting a new institution from scratch is feasible is a separate question (I agree that the obstacles to that are great).<br /><br />However, if there is nothing distinctiveIy Lutheran about the education being offered by the school, I don't understand the point of replicating educational models of public universities within historically Lutheran schools.Steve Gehrkenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3948298098114337495.post-21582114472151026432010-11-09T09:43:40.547-06:002010-11-09T09:43:40.547-06:00Right, but.... My argument is not that there is n...Right, but.... My argument is not that there is nothing distinctive about Lutheran liberal arts college, nor that there is any (good) reason to get your pharmacology or business degree from a Lutheran school. But these schools already exist. Why not use them?<br /><br />The Fish article does consider the virtuous mooch, but only in the context of public schools which exist, under political pressure, for purposes other than those that would inform a Lutheran liberal arts college. There is a big difference between public and Lutheran institutions. If you want to fund the humanities, it seems to me that using the revenue from a business or pharmacy school is every bit as good as other money, but with the advantage that it already exists. You are absolutely right there is something more foundational at stake than just paying the institution's bills. But try having an institution without paying the bills.<br /><br />Ultimately, the point is you should not allow perfection to defeat the good. If you really, really want a purist institution, you face two very real risks: 1) you'll be teaching Plato to five students in a trailer park in Nowhere, Minnesota or 2) you'll just end up just talking about the project and bemoaning all the obstacles that keep it from happening. Sure, you could get lucky and find out that Warren Buffett is a closet Wittenbergian just waiting for the opportunity to fund a Lutheran liberal arts college. A surer strategy, however, will involve concessions to reality. The fact is, right now there is nothing. Nothing won't become something if everything is an obstacle.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02675823016762234441noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3948298098114337495.post-90227073191643497462010-11-06T00:11:39.701-05:002010-11-06T00:11:39.701-05:00I would suggest that if there is nothing distincti...I would suggest that if there is nothing distinctive educationally about a Lutheran university, then there is no reason to support one. Why go to a Lutheran school to major in pharmacy or business when there are plenty of established secular schools already offering such educations? Why not focus efforts on developing and supporting high quality Lutheran campus ministries associated with such secular schools instead, if the only educational difference between a secular school and a Lutheran one is a more pious social scene and a few courses on religion? The Fish article considers the fallacies of trying to support the liberal arts by mooching off the 'cash cow' majors.<br /><br />However, I think Jon is arguing that in fact Lutheranism DOES have something distinctive to offer higher education via the humanities that secular schools cannot (because they wind up in Fish's cul de sac).<br /><br />I did find your post thoughtful and helpful. It actually is basically the way I tend to think about these problems also, but over time Jon has gotten me thinking that there IS something more foundational at stake than just figuring out how to pay the bills of an institution and credentialing students to become employable (as necessary as those things are).Steve Gehrkenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3948298098114337495.post-48072964487589231062010-11-05T14:51:24.017-05:002010-11-05T14:51:24.017-05:00Speaking of facts and numbers, it would be interes...Speaking of facts and numbers, it would be interesting to hear your take on incrementalism in instituting liberal education. I get an all-or-nothing sense when I read this blog—i.e., that it must be Wittenberg or nothing at all. But pausing to look at some facts and numbers, that may be unworkable. First, because so much support for your way of thinking comes not from those who would or could provide financial support, but from people who think about these issues for a living. Second, because some already existing aspects of non-liberal education—let’s say a pharmacy education, a business department, pre-law—may actually provide revenue to a school seeking to beef up its liberal arts. Third, and perhaps most importantly, because many people have a lot invested—in time, treasure, and reputation—in the non-liberal programs and are likely to put up a good fight if support for their programs is pulled in favor of the liberal arts.<br /><br />You can protest that my head is buried in expediency, which is likely the disease that got higher education into this mess to begin with. At the risk of being practical, however, isn’t there a more successful strategy that uses the existing framework at Lutheran schools even as it undermines that framework? Can’t a revenue generating pharmacy program, as an example, help fund the humanities while that program is being slowly phased out? Or even this: is there a place for a school dedicated to liberal education within an institution of the current Lutheran higher educational system, one that would take advantage of the institution’s physical facilities but pursue pure liberal arts?<br /><br />In one of your replies to a response to “World-Class Liberal Arts for Lutherans,” you suggest possible reasons why college presidents don’t engage with you about your project. Roadblocks, all of them, but I assume that a group of academics educated in and committed to liberal arts have the requisite creativity to meet these roadblocks and figure out ways around, over, or through. Perhaps—and I know this lack of purism may be painful to consider—you would even find those other non-liberal programs necessary or useful to the ongoing success of liberal arts studies.<br /><br />In short, are liberal arts important only if they definitively put non-liberal education in the grave, or are they so important that one must find a way to pursue them and transmit them to future generations even in the midst of philistinism? To put it more crassly, if there were $100, would you rather risk the high odds of getting $0 while reaching for the whole pile of cash, or would you be willing to take $75? While purity in the liberal arts may be a virture, my own liberal arts education has taught me that purity is seldom attainable and the quest for it often leads to places we shouldn’t want to go.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02675823016762234441noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3948298098114337495.post-8462608561402060372010-10-25T20:32:43.503-05:002010-10-25T20:32:43.503-05:00The main thing the top 15 (I didn't check all ...The main thing the top 15 (I didn't check all 50) on the list shared was the characteristics of their student population. An admissions officer can't know which individual student will go on to seek a Ph.D. in science or engineering, but he does know what pool of candidates he will come from. So it seems largely a matter of advertising to and recruiting highly prepared students.<br /><br /><br />Carleton students, 13% majored in physical sciences, math not listed separately* <br />2000 undergrads* <br />525 S&E Ph.D's within 9 years***<br /><br />University of Chicago had 7% in physical science and 7% in math** <br />5000 undergrads**<br />873 S&E Ph.D's within 9 years***<br /><br />So, no apparent disadvantage for those individuals choosing a smaller but still high quality liberal arts college who would then wish to pursue graduate study. <br /><br />*http://collegesearch.collegeboard.com/search/CollegeDetail.jsp?match=true&collegeId=509&searchType=college&type=qfs&word=carleton#<br /><br />**http://collegesearch.collegeboard.com/search/CollegeDetail.jsp?collegeId=1713&profileId=0#<br /><br />***http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/infbrief/nsf08311/#tab2<br /><br />University Business reported in 2007 that small colleges were successfully attracting science majors.<br /> <br />http://www.universitybusiness.com/viewarticle.aspx?articleid=732<br /><br />A college with a Wittenberg view, I assume, would be a small liberal arts college and would offer programs that students interested in various fields including sciences could feel confident would prepare them for whatever they would pursue after graduation. If Carleton can do it, then it can be done. The college would really need to attract the students and faculty who want to do it. There would have to be a commitment to recruit at least the students if not also some faculty. The program would have to be communicated to those prospective students, many of whom are sitting in the pews Sundays. They can't choose what doesn't exist, or if it does and they are unaware of it. Just pure supposition but perhaps the faculty at some particular Lutheran campus already want to move in that direction. It seems that if they can have a meeting of the minds within their departments they could be able to steer in that direction. That would take some confidence, but seems within possibility. In fact, it may be more effective than a university president trying to make it happen. I don't know how strong the current leaders are. If they are not very strong, they may depend on the faculty for direction or worse, fear change. <br /><br />Looking at the horizon for my own children, it would be nice for them to have a great Lutheran college to attend. It would be great to be assured the colleges and congregations are really walking together in providing the most appropriate education for their capable college aged church members.Corneliahttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/7f/Gracchi_and_Cornelia.jpgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3948298098114337495.post-32796470418961633382010-10-23T20:16:05.789-05:002010-10-23T20:16:05.789-05:00BTW, the example of being in technical compliance ...BTW, the example of being in technical compliance with environmental regulations while clearly being out of compliance with the intent of the regulation (i.e. dead fish being observed where effluent runs into the river although assays of the effluent meet the EPA requirements) is a real example. <br /><br /> Is ignoring the presence of the dead fish ethical? What about turning off costly pollution-prevention equipment except when the EPA announces a pending compliance visit? (another real example) Engineering equations can't answer this. What say the humanists? What says Luther/Lutheran theologians?Steve Gehrkenoreply@blogger.com